Podcast: #WhyMcGlinchey? Path to Partnership with Zelma Murray FrederickRead Time: 22 mins
The path to partnership looks different for every lawyer. In the first installment of the #WhyMcGlinchey series of the More with McGlinchey podcast, Director of Talent Acquisition Margeaux Roush talks with Baton Rouge litigator Zelma Murray Frederick about how she has chosen to grow her career here at McGlinchey, from a non-traditional start with the firm to nonprofit leadership, work-life balance, becoming a Member, and chairing the firm’s Summer Associate Program.
Margeaux Roush: Welcome to the #WhyMcGlinchey series of the “More with McGlinchey” podcast, where we’ll talk about why our attorneys decide to join, stay, and grow their practices at McGlinchey. I’m Margeaux Roush, Director of Talent Acquisition. And joining me today for the first installment of the series is Zelma Frederick, who practices commercial and construction litigation in our Baton Rouge office. Hi Zelma, thanks for joining me today.
Zelma Frederick: Hey there. Thank you for having me!
Margeaux Roush: I think we’ll go ahead and jump right in. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about how you came to join the firm?
Zelma Frederick: Pure luck and happenstance. I’m from Louisiana, but went to high school in Mississippi (the whole Vidalia, Louisiana/Natchez across the river thing). Then I went to undergrad in Mobile and then ended up at law school at Mississippi College in Jackson. I had a long-time relationship, long-distance during all that. And so I was totally up for going wherever. Mobile was great. Jackson’s great. Natchez is great too. And then after law school, I got married the week after law school and my husband got a raise, a significant promotion and raise, about the same time. So we came to Baton Rouge. I studied for the bar and didn’t know anybody in Baton Rouge. My husband is from here, so that worked out, but I didn’t have a lot of connections.
So I took the first job in the legal field with a national bank, and it was not what I expected at all. It was not really doing any legal work. It was very procedural in nature and computer-oriented, and I wasn’t meeting anybody. So I just kind of started looking for other jobs, and McGlinchey actually had a secretarial job opening. So at that point I was like, well, I need to get out of what I don’t like doing right now, because I’m not learning anything. And at least that’s a firm that I know of. I knew of it from law school because we have a Jackson office. I knew of the reputation. So I thought, what the heck, I’ll go see about that. I worked with Jon Ann Giblin and we hit it off immediately. I mean, in the interview she actually looked at me and said, “you’re a lawyer. Why do you want to be my secretary?” She’s very matter of fact. And I said you know, “I want to get some skills and I want to meet people like you, so that if a job opening comes up, even if it’s not at McGlinchey, that you would hopefully think I’m competent and give me a recommendation.” And so anyway, I took the job and Jon Ann and I just hit it off completely. I learned so much about civil procedure and what the sheriff does and what the clerk does. And little things that I think attorneys out of law school don’t ever know how to do. How to print a letter, how to print an envelope! What does it mean when you say “walk something through” at the courthouse? All of those things. So that’s kind of how I started. And within a few months I moved over into an attorney position and kind of haven’t looked back. At the beginning of this year, I made 14 years here. So it’s been a while. A good while.
Margeaux Roush: That’s fantastic. And not quite a traditional start, but definitely led you in to the right place.
Zelma Frederick: Yeah, I think so. I think it was two blessings with that right out of law school. So at the first job in the legal department that I didn’t like, I learned quickly how much it can affect your whole mood if you have a job that you don’t like, and that doesn’t work for you, and that you’re not compatible with. And I felt very fortunate, even as a little baby, to know, okay, there’s not going to be a job that’s ever 100% perfect. But when you have a job that you cannot handle, it affects everything in your life. And so then the other thing I think is that I hit the ground running here because I hit it off with everybody here so well, and it was a huge blessing.
Margeaux Roush: So once you transitioned into being an attorney here at the firm, what were your goals and how did you go about kind of focusing on them and climbing towards them?
Zelma Frederick: My first goal was really just do good work. Figure out how to be an attorney, figure out how to not just be a secretary, figure out what am I, you know, “what is my job?” kind of thing. But my goal overall has always been to progress. So that first progression was from secretary to attorney. I had less kind of responsibility as far as like case management, but I did everything. I mean, I threw myself into firm culture. I did all the extracurricular activities and kind of found my home here. And so during those years, my goal was to just progress. So that meant doing different kinds of work, working with different people, working with people in different offices, you know. Progressing from drafting things to actually arguing motions, that kind of thing. And so that’s really, being stagnant in a role is kind of one of my big fears.
As a young Associate, you don’t have a lot of control over your caseload necessarily, and you don’t get as much face-to-face interaction with clients because you’re learning and doing. And it’s really just all about training and becoming more competent as an attorney. And so as a young Associate, I think I was more focused on gaining skills and having more control over the type of work that I did, to the extent that I could. But there was no expectation at that point to go get a client. There’s no list that you’re given to say, “you need to do x, y, z.”
As I moved forward in my career and was out further from being a brand new attorney, the goal kind of shifts. And then you do want to have more control over what you’re drafting and you of course want to give work product to the partner and not have as many edits, things like that. So that’s the kind of progression that was important to me at that time. You want to, you know, start getting in conversations with potential clients, thinking about that. What kind of client do I even want? If I had a case, could I even handle it by myself? What kind of case would that even be, that I felt that if it went all the way to trial (as a litigator), what could I even do? And so it was all about that progression of, you know, as you get more skills and more time under your belt and more confidence, you grow and progress to kind of extend yourself outside of just receiving tasks and doing them.
And then as you move forward, it’s more about, you know, my goals right now are more about growing my practice, and growing that in the complexity of cases that I take and that I help with. Growing my book of business and growing the types of clients that come to me, come to Zelma and say, “we want Zelma.” You know, that’s kind of something, now, that’s more important to me, and to be looked at as a leader in my field, a leader in the office. There’s a lot of stuff at the firm that gets done that the attorneys help with and collaborate with and lead. And so being a leader and viewed as a leader in the office is also important to my personal growth. So whether that’s being on committees, helping with clerking, helping with office morale. That’s all the kind of stuff that’s important to me that is just part of that growth. So it’s seeing opportunities, doing what fits within your personality, and always kind of reassessing to say like, okay, what’s the next step? Who do I need to go approach? If I want to do more construction law, then I might go to Brent Hicks and say, “Hey, you know, I’m really interested in this. I don’t know if I want to do it, but can I help you on a case?” Things like that.
Margeaux Roush: And I think you’ve also, you know, you mentioned the law clerk program — you’ve also had the opportunity to really be very proactive in recruiting for law schools as well as mentoring younger Associates. So you’ve really had a hands-on role with a lot of that. Can you talk a little bit about that transition for you?
Zelma Frederick: Yeah. So I’ve always been fairly involved with clerks. I was never the head of the Baton Rouge office’s clerk program, but most of the colleagues that were at my same kind of level as an Associate, we all just kind of did things together. So that included clerks. And the more that you do things together like that, the more fun it is. It’s more fun for the office. It’s more fun for the clerks. You get cool people to like you, then you want ’em to come work here. It’s more fun. Everything’s a ball of fun. But seriously, it is true. It kind of snowballs in a positive way. And then last year they asked me to be the chair of the Summer Associate Committee firmwide. So that was really a learning curve for me, but it’s been great. It’s pushing those skills. Expanding our diversity is really important to me, and it’s important to the firm and to our Managing Member.
And so this #McGlincheyForward theme that we have, and have had for the past year or so, is present in everything. And so for recruiting, it’s been really eye-opening to me to say, “Hello, committee that approves this. Can we try to get more diverse candidates through the LCLD program? Because that would be really great if we could extend this. For the past, however many years, we’ve had one in various offices around the country. But why don’t we try for one in each office instead of one across all offices?” And to be at a point in my career where I can say that freely, and also have a no-hesitation response of, “Absolutely. I think that’s great. Absolutely. We haven’t thought about it like that.” It’s just really rewarding, because we want to see more diversity, more females, young people who are interested in our firm that don’t necessarily fit in with what we have had historically in the legal profession. It’s kind of exciting.
Margeaux Roush: Those different perspectives really do bring a whole lot more to McGlinchey as a group. I think having various different perspectives, who have different backgrounds, who all didn’t go to a certain type of school, who all didn’t have great grades, or who all didn’t, you know, know they wanted to be a lawyer from birth. Having, you know, various life experiences makes us a stronger firm.
Zelma Frederick: Yeah, I think so. And I think now more than ever our clients don’t need somebody that can quote the Constitution, necessarily. Our clients are everyday people. My favorite clients are the ones that you can go and have a beer with. And I want more normal people who are open to just being great attorneys and not living to work. I think that’s the right way to say that. Yeah, they’re not living to work.
Margeaux Roush: And we’ve also seen that, you know, top-of-the-class grades does not predict that you’re going to be a good lawyer. It just means you test well!
Zelma Frederick: And it can!
Margeaux Roush: Yeah.
Zelma Frederick: I know a lot of great lawyers that are, but I think it’s about finding the right person and the right fit. Typically the resumes, by the time they get to Summer Associate Committee, we tell every interviewee, you know, “I really don’t care what your resume says, at this point. We know that you’ve met — we know that you’re great. We know you have met a minimum grade, or do great in law school. We want to get to know you. We want to see if there’s a fit.” And a fit in the Baton Rouge office might be different from a fit in the New Orleans office, blah, blah, blah. But it’s that. It’s about finding the right person more than the right checklist off of a sheet of paper. And I think it, that is exciting. Because I’m not.
Margeaux Roush: You’re interviewing a future coworker, not necessarily a minion.
Zelma Frederick: Right! That’s right.
Margeaux Roush: You’re interviewing someone who’s going to be your coworker, who’s going to work with you on projects for that collaborative team effort, instead of just someone to kind of hand a bunch of work to, and expect them to just do your bidding.
Zelma Frederick: Right. And I think… I’m the first person in my family to graduate from college. And I have to say, that’s kind of a joke, because my older brother — I’m one of five, and the brother right above me on stairsteps, he technically finished the same year as me from college, but it was two weeks after me. So I was the first, proudly, but I’m the first attorney. It’s important to me to not find other people who are just like the stereotypical attorney. And when I was growing up and when I told my dad, “I want to go to law school,” my dad would say, “well, yeah. I mean, I think, you might want to rethink that. Because a lot of firms say, ‘if you don’t want to come in on Saturday, then don’t bother showing up on (Monday).'” And it was that nose to the grindstone, 150% of the time, for the firm, by the firm.
That is not the world that we live in here, at least in my little universe of law firms. And I’m so thankful for that because it’s kind of going back to my family to say, “I’ve been afforded great flexibility, great opportunities. And I still get to hang out with y’all, and I didn’t come from this long line of barristers.” And there’s nothing wrong with that. We welcome that too! But it just is a little bit of a wider playing field. And I think that is going to make us a more holistic, successful, longstanding, and sustainable place.
Margeaux Roush: Yeah. Work-life balance. I mean, you are expected to do the work, but there are also exceptions to the rule. You’re expected to have a life too. So that’s the nice thing.
Zelma Frederick: Yeah. And I don’t mind, I mean, it’s really sad, but true. I tell everybody this. One of my favorite things to do sometimes, now, is I usually work through lunch. That’s just my preference. And then I might leave work early to go sit in carpool. I love doing it with my kids. So I kind of take that space during the day. I’ll sit there, put on an audiobook, play candy crush, and totally zone out. And it is amazing. I’m okay to go home, and if I have some things to do when I get home, pop open the laptop for a couple of hours. That’s what works for me. Knock out a little bit more work if I need to. But it also allows me to have my kind of time in a “thinkless,” you know, universe for a little while. And it also allows me to have that time with my kids. Go home, do homework, do the mom thing. And of course I’m not going to do that the day before I have an oral argument or a trial, you know. Discretion is there. But that flexibility of, I don’t want to say “having it all,” but I mean, a lot of times I feel like I do, I pretty much can balance it out. And maybe three or four times of the year I’m really freaked out, because I might have a lot of deadlines and I might be really stressed, or my child is sick, you know, that’s life.
I don’t know that anybody ever told me like, “yes, you can go to your child’s x, y, z,” but I can tell you that as a young Associate, when I saw some of, especially the men, taking off early to go to their children’s swim meets out of town, or to go to see their children’s school activities. That almost spoke louder than, “yeah, you can go and do that, but we’ll be here working.” That flexibility and balance in life is kind of through all threads of the firm.
Margeaux Roush: To me, it sounds like that was strongly encouraged by the firm. Do you feel like you drove that yourself, or that you were given the opportunity, or you had to fight for it?
Zelma Frederick: I think the firm is very encouraging to meet goals. And I think there are a lot of opportunities that were presented through specific attorneys, and then from the firm specifically, that are geared towards Associates and have been since I started. Things like, okay, you’re putting in time every day, we have a guideline and a rule for why that’s done. Let me give you the background of that. Let me show you how your, you know, 0.1 makes it on a bill and makes it to the client. And then it comes back for salary and revenue. So things like that, knowledge. And you kind of have to, I’m an “opt-in-er.” So like I’m always going to take advantage of that. But the firm presents a lot of just like educational resources from that kind of the “business of law.” From early on, there were opportunities to work on, you know, business development plans and you know, who do you want to be? What do you want to do? How do you want to get a client? Over the years through different mentors, that’s looked very different. I think in the last several years, we’ve really heightened, like especially business development. But it’s definitely all, it’s always been here. So while I was fighting somewhat, because that’s kind of my nature, because I wanted things to maybe progress a little faster at some points in my career, the firm was very much willing to provide opportunities to me, just like every other Associate in the office and every other Partner, every other, you know, lateral that came over.
Margeaux Roush: Yeah, the business professional side of McGlinchey Stafford, I think, is incredible. And I feel like once you get to the point of either, maybe an Of Counsel or even a Member, you really start to see the more global benefits that all of those different people bring to the table. Whether it’s the talent acquisition team helping you really focus on, you know, these are the types of candidates you need to be hiring for your group, or when you’re ready to hire. Or you have the, the BD and Marketing team talking to you about, well, have you thought about it this way? Have you thought about it that way? What if this question comes up? Kind of bringing those thoughts, and the Members that we have being open to that feedback from our professional staff. Or the IT guy giving you free advice on what to buy as far as a laptop for your spouse. You know?
Zelma Frederick: Yeah.
Margeaux Roush: All of those are the little, they’re the little things that we do at McGlinchey — they’re the “more” that you get from McGlinchey.
Zelma Frederick: Yeah, I think so. And I think that tagline is so apropos. I mean, from a worker bee standpoint, I definitely feel that way. And I think lately we’ve really capitalized on taking advantage of Zoom during work-from-home time during COVID, because I feel like the leadership right now and the professional development side of it has really, you know, we have a pretty large footprint across the United States, but it doesn’t feel that way. They’ve really like made it a lot smaller to say, “Hey, Zelma, you have a new construction case. Have you ever worked with Kim Israel in Florida? She’s done construction in the past. Y’all should collaborate. Let me set something up.” It’s made our firm feel a lot smaller even though, you know, geographically we’re spread out all over the place. So I think that’s another thing lately that’s helped kind of push my practice personally, and then just the Baton Rouge office, kind of our bigger practice, and the one that I’m with, in my team, to another level. Because we’re kind of collaborating and going across state lines all the time. And I don’t know that we, without the assistance from the firm and from key people in other offices, without that assistance, I don’t know that it would be possible. It certainly was not as easy to do for me personally before the last couple of years. And so it’s nice.
Margeaux Roush: What elements or actions do you think have been key to your success aside from learning that “business of law?”
Zelma Frederick: Here, it is a great mix of people in the office. Even on my worst day as an attorney, you know, the day when you get a motion for sanctions that’s frivolous filed against you, and you have a deadline, and you have a client that won’t stop calling you about a typo of a period, and you have all these things. Even on my worst day, the people that I work with and that I’ve, you know, have trained me and mentored me are amazing. And so, even on my worst day, it’s a great place to be. Not perfection, but I mean, you know, everything’s relative, and I really respect and enjoy the people that I work with. We have a really collegiate atmosphere. And I like that I know my colleagues’ kids’ names, and I like that I know what’s happening with them and where they’re going on vacation. And you know, actually wanting to do something outside of work hours with the people that I work with. That’s a huge plus for me. And I like that my kids know the people that I work with. And it’s not terrible if, before quarantine, if they’ve had to come up here and “help me at work” kind of thing. So the atmosphere and the people are really, I think, keys to my success because it allows me to be my best. And that’s critical to that whole growth, progressive thing that I talked about earlier.
Margeaux Roush: What other opportunities do you think that you’ve had here while you’ve been an attorney that have really been kind of crucial to your path to progression, to your success of becoming, you know, the best lawyer you can be?
Zelma Frederick: For my whole life, I’ve always liked to be involved in things. And here, once I got, you know, into like the Baton Rouge culture and stuff, I started getting involved again in nonprofits, and the firm is so supportive of that. I’m sure there are firms out there that say, you know, we want you to be on a board and your compensation’s tied to it. That’s not a thing here. The firm does support that, and if that is of interest to anyone like it was to me, the firm fully supports it. So I was really involved with the Junior League of Baton Rouge, which is kind of this trek of a nonprofit. And it’s not a normal nonprofit because it’s not just board service and go to a meeting. It’s, if you want anything done, the volunteers do everything. So you volunteer with that organization for at least eight years as an “Active.” And that includes time off of work, fundraising, and things like that. And the firm was very supportive of it. And then a couple of years before I ended my active years, I was nominated to be the president of that organization. And that is a full-time job. So for two and a half years, I was being trained and basically running another business, CEO of a nonprofit with, you know, a $600,000 budget and 1500 members. So that required a lot of travel. It required a lot of time out of the office. It required a lot of meetings in the office with different people, going on the news, things like that. And the firm was here for it. It was great. And so that support for me pushed me professionally in ways that I don’t think anybody would’ve guessed, because I grew personally. And so then that developed me more professionally, to be more confident, to you know, get out and get outside of my circle more and things like that.
So they let me do that, and I was able to do that as an Associate too. So I didn’t have this book of business. I wasn’t like the, you know, number one gunner on billables. I was doing my job and I did my job well, and I met my commitment here. But I also had the full support to go and do this other, you know, very time consuming thing in the nonprofit world. And it made a huge, it made a huge difference in my life and I think it’s, I think my practice is better for it and the firm and hopefully is better for it.
Margeaux Roush: And that’s a great networking opportunity too, to kind of spread the word about the place that you work and that you like the place that you work. And that’s really neat.
Zelma Frederick: It is. And it’s cool too, because it’s like, if you have an interest, you know, there’s that support there. And again, you know, if I just feel like, if you’re here, then the basic minimum is that you do good work for your clients. And then all the other stuff like that, like getting involved or doing, you know, if some of my colleagues want to teach at LSU, they can do that. That’s great. And so that all these extracurriculars are helpful and help develop the firm and help develop the person. And so it’s all, it’s all really encouraged, but not forced, which is nice.
Margeaux Roush: Ok, so I guess one last question. If you could give yourself, your younger self as kind of a “baby lawyer” advice, you know, looking back at what you’ve done, what would you think are like maybe the top two or three things you’d really encourage yourself to do?
Zelma Frederick: Okay. The first I kind of said earlier, I would opt in. Say yes, if there’s an opportunity. Yeah, sometimes you’re going to feel like, you’re going to roll your eyes and be like, “oh, I don’t want to go to this lunch.” Say yes and opt in and take advantage of those opportunities. As an Associate, it’s a really hard time, especially as a baby Associate, because number one, unless you’re just brilliant and amazing, which most people are. But for me, I didn’t know anything. And so opting in to opportunities, whether it was going to lunch at the firm, or staying after work and going to get a cocktail, or volunteering together. That’s time with the people that you work with, and as an Associate, that’s really your client. So you have like a client that’s paying you, and you have the clients that you’re doing work for and with.
And so if you opt in to those kind of, I’ll say “outside hour” activities, as much as you can, you’re going to develop that personal relationship with the people that you work with. They’re going to get to know more about you. It builds a trust, then to me, when you’re in a situation that you might have a stressful moment — which I know are few and far between in litigation — but if you have a stressful moment, you’re going to know that person. And it’s going to take the edge off of that a little bit more. Because you’re going to know, “okay, this is just a stressful situation. I didn’t do anything wrong.” You’re going to take a lot of that personal baggage off of yourself. Or at least I did. So I would say opt in. It is a business and your practice is a business, so everybody wants you to succeed, but you have to want yourself to exceed.
And kind of with that, my other thing that I think is key is to be proactive. I’m a Partner now. What I like with my Associates is, I want them to feel that we’re both collaborating on a project and that we’re both actively working on something, but I don’t want to spoon-feed everything. Because you know, the business model is that the Associate helps and does potentially more work so that the rote kind of, you know, they’re learning and training and the rote work is less performed by the, you know, as you get to a Senior Associate, Partner level. So I think being proactive, you know, going and saying, “Hey, I see this came in. The answer is due in 21 days. And that day is blah.” Instead of just saying, “Hey, the answer is due in 21 days” and not calculating it. It’s little things like that that are going to make the difference between being somebody’s right-hand man, and kind of just a face in the crowd.
And I think the more you can be proactive and kind of take that next step and don’t just rely on the Partner to spoon-feed everything the better off you’ll be. Because the other part of that is, Partners don’t know anything else or anything more or anything special than Associates do. And so I think if you limit yourself to exactly what the Partner tells you to do, in most cases, the Partner might not be exactly right. And so you might be missing an issue or missing something. And that’s part of that training. Like we want the people that we work with to think independently and think logically and strategically.
Margeaux Roush: Yeah, take extra step.
Zelma Frederick: Yeah. To take that extra step and say, “Hey, I know you told me to research x, y, and z, but did you see this case? Because we haven’t talked about this issue, but I think it applies in this case.” So many times that could be the make-or-break moment of a case to say, “oh my God, we’re going to get a dismissal because of this, this issue” which might not have been in the initial assignment. So it’s kind of hard, but I think it pays off, and you kind of build that confidence as you go. And then once you have that, even down the line with your secretary and paralegal, it’s more of a team effort and it’s more of a trust to say, hey, we’re all double-checking each other. We’re all doing a little bit more than we’re supposed to be doing than just, like, within the box. So we’re going to have the best work product because everybody has off days. And again Partners, maybe the other Partners I work with do, but like I don’t know a lot of stuff! So I hope somebody’s not relying on me to be the gospel on everything legal. It’s got to be that team effort.
Margeaux Roush: Yeah. Definitely opting in and treating it like a team effort, coming to the table not expecting someone to just dictate what you have to do, but kind of figuring it out yourself is the best way to grow and learn. And the challenge of that, really the key to success.
Zelma Frederick: Yeah. And I think here, I’ve been in client meetings, and I mean, you know, you have to read the room there, you have, there’s a lot of parameters to that broad advice, right? But I definitely can distinctly remember leaving a meeting that I spoke in that I don’t necessarily know that I was technically on the agenda to speak in, and it was a loose agenda. But I left and I talked to my supervising attorney and I said, “I’m sorry that I piped up about X, y, and z.” And I was told never to apologize for that, thanked for my insight and thanked for, you know, providing kind of the assist and being the wingman, because that was a helpful to our team. And then the client appreciated it because I wasn’t just a person in the room taking notes. Like I knew the issues, I could respond. And so that’s, that’s part of it too. You kind of build that confidence and that trust so that when you’re in that situation, you can speak intelligently. You shouldn’t apologize for that. It was good advice from this person who said, you know, like, “no, never apologize for that. You’ve worked on it more than I have, you know, totally what you’re saying,” which is good.
Margeaux Roush: I think one of the coolest things that I’ve seen in the last couple of years is that we don’t just have practice groups anymore. We have industry groups that are focused on where the firm is going. And so you’re not just limited to commercial litigation or your construction practice. If you’re interested in energy or you’re interested in something else, or even, you know, a cross-selling committee, there’s those national kind of groups that are part of the firm that you can join to really expand your knowledge of who and what our resources are that are available to you.
Zelma Frederick: Yeah. And I mean, and at the end of the day, it is a business and that’s only going to help. You know, if the boat rises, we all rise with it.
Margeaux Roush: That’s right.
Zelma Frederick: So it’s been really, in the past year, I’ve worked more with attorneys from the New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, and California offices than I had previously. And it’s been amazing. Your skillset grows and little things like kind of the P’s and Q’s of practicing law, you naturally are going to pick up more of those the more that you diversify who you’re working with. That’s been huge for me. You don’t want to have the same person in your ear all the time. The more that you’re exposed to different modes of thought, the better it is. And I’ve definitely benefited from that in the last year. For sure.
Margeaux Roush: Well, it’s great that your journey is still continuing here, you know, just because you reach the level of Member doesn’t mean you’re done. There’s always more to learn and more to grow with and more tools that are available at your disposal.
Zelma Frederick: Yeah. I think that’s true. And I think I’m anxious to see what comes next.
Margeaux Roush: Okay. Well, I think that’s about all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for joining us for the first installment of the #WhyMcGlinchey series of the “More with McGlinchey” podcast. We appreciate your time and we look forward to speaking with you again soon.
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